The Bucket

Simon (00:02.448)
Yo.

Steven (00:02.83)
Hello?

Shane Rosenthal (00:04.828)
What's up?

Steven (00:05.518)
What's up, friends?

Simon (00:06.982)
been a while.

Shane Rosenthal (00:11.186)
too long.

Steven (00:12.43)
Been a little busy. What's been going on, fellas?

Shane Rosenthal (00:16.53)
Deodorant. Deodorant's going on armpits all around the world as we speak.

Shane Rosenthal (00:24.666)
I came up with that like when I was like 15 and I just, I don't know, some things.

Steven (00:29.518)
You figured that was the time.

Simon (00:29.564)
Is it roll on or a spray?

Shane Rosenthal (00:32.383)
Both. Right now, both are happening. Right now. I hope. That's the...

Simon (00:38.108)
Can you imagine someone doing both at the same time? Like try, can even try? Like, that's going to be really tricky. That's good.

Shane Rosenthal (00:41.906)
Could I imagine that? Yes, I could imagine that. That'd be interesting. You know, like, give you the visual. Sorry for our listeners only and not the YouTubers.

Steven (00:52.31)
Yeah

Steven (00:58.126)
of Ed.

Simon (00:58.705)
I lifted up my armpits and it actually smells not too bad, so that's good. I did my deodorant. You're right. That is what's going on.

Steven (01:02.946)
Hey!

Shane Rosenthal (01:03.698)
That's good. That's See that?

Steven (01:09.57)
and you're late in your day. I mean.

Simon (01:12.166)
Yeah, I haven't been fuming off all day, so that's good.

Steven (01:13.858)
It's working.

Steven (01:18.478)
Alright guys, I want to get straight into the meat of some stuff.

Simon (01:22.498)
let's go.

Shane Rosenthal (01:24.626)
Damn. Crack it.

Steven (01:25.282)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Mobile stuff at the native PHP. You guys have been rocking and rolling.

Shane Rosenthal (01:31.634)
Is that a thing still?

Simon (01:34.64)
Native PHP, that sounds disgusting.

Shane Rosenthal (01:39.004)
They're building apps now with Laravel.

Steven (01:43.438)
So why don't Shane, why don't you let the folks know for anybody that doesn't already what happened last week, what was like officially released. And then maybe Simon can follow up with a big milestone that the company had recently.

Simon (01:44.668)
Crazy.

Shane Rosenthal (02:04.722)
It's kind of, that's a hard question. I'll try to remember things and process them in real time because the days I've all been blurred together, um, the weeks are blurring together. My name Simon's face are blurring together in dreams that I have, which is awesome.

Steven (02:22.593)
Well, I was just referring to Shane, your side of the coin and something hit V1. So what happened?

Shane Rosenthal (02:25.286)
The official. Yes.

So the last Friday, a ago today of the recording, we released version one of native PHP mobile. That happens. That happened. It's out there. People are using it. They're installing it. They're running it. They're sending screenshots to Discord and Twitter. And it's so crazy, like the day that we released to see people taking up

Steven (02:40.626)
yeah, let's go.

Simon (02:44.924)
Boo yah!

Shane Rosenthal (02:59.922)
picture with another phone, obviously, of their Android device with the Laravel 12 homepage. And they're in freaking somewhere in Africa or somewhere. It's crazy to see that stuff. yes, as of a week ago today, Android and iOS officially supported with NativePHP. can build mobile apps with Laravel.

Steven (03:07.468)
Yeah.

Steven (03:12.365)
Mm-hmm.

Steven (03:27.863)
Hell yeah. Sick. Okay, and then falling on that, Simon, what was the big milestone you guys just hit?

Shane Rosenthal (03:29.234)
Congrats team.

Simon (03:30.35)
Yeah.

Simon (03:37.679)
Well, because of all of that, because Shane brought Android into the club in short order, we've seen this like monumental increase in the number of people joining the EAP. So April was like a mega month, mega month. so it's like finishing it on a high. I actually think the, the day of release wasn't that

big on sales. It was good. It was a good day, but it wasn't like the big days that we've had, which is kind of interesting. But overall in because of what happened in April, we hit a hundred thousand dollars in revenue since. Yeah. So it's gross, but we, we obviously have fees and things taken out of that.

Steven (04:27.085)
Let's go.

Simon (04:37.984)
so that, but what I posted, it's not really, it's, know, it's a hundred K. It doesn't matter. It's, it's a nice big round number and it's awesome. And we're, we've gone past that now already because it's been a few days since that happened. So probably getting close to two weeks since it actually happened. so yeah, this is, this is awesome. And it means great things for the whole project, which I'm super happy about.

It means that this whole thing is validated. But the thing that I am most excited about, well, two things I'm most excited about. One is that it happened in under three months. Like I launched the thing on February the fourth and this happened before May even began. you know, count that time. It's not even three months. That's incredible. For me, that's incredible. and the other thing is we're doing that. Yeah, definitely.

Steven (05:31.083)
Right.

Clearly a lot of interest.

Simon (05:37.553)
And the other thing is that we're doing that in a marketplace that's, say, inundated with free alternatives that are much further along than this brand new project. So there's something there that speaks to like what people want, you know, which I'm really, really happy with.

Shane Rosenthal (06:02.546)
There's a couple things I want to say around this, but on that point, you say that there's alternatives. I don't see that there are alternatives. I see that there are other ways to accomplish a native app without writing Swift and Kotlin, but I have not seen anybody else.

Shane Rosenthal (06:31.078)
tap into an existing framework with an audience that already exists, right? If you're do Flutter, you gotta learn Flutter. If you're gonna do React Native, you have to learn React Native. If you know Laravel, you can already do mobile apps. maybe I just don't know, I don't pay attention to everything, and I should pay more attention probably to a lot of these, what the competition quote unquote is, but I don't see it as, we built this for Laravel, we built it for PHP, honestly. Laravel is one take on that.

And it's probably the biggest, the biggest audience for the PHP world. But it's not the only implementation. We have a PHP engine now fully integrated into iOS and Android, so we can do other frameworks. But I just, don't see there's alternatives. I don't see anybody else saying, you know .NET or, you know, like, or some specific implementation that lot of people are using for .NET. Now, without learning anything else.

you can now do mobile apps from your, you know, whatever, whatever that framework is. and I think that putting the developer, cause that's what we are, right? We have been, we've been spoiled by Laravel over the last 10, 15 years that we've been working in it of having these really nice, easy to use, well-documented, seeing results on the first command kind of, treatments. And we've been kind of spoiled and having a nice,

developer experience looking at all these other I don't I don't do node. I don't do next. I don't do all these but I see comments all the time like, you know, using this router view router or or next or whatever they're called, you know, and people are complaining like how do you live with yourselves? Just learn Laravel and so like yeah making this a real almost almost like a first class.

what we would expect as developers and making that experience for the other developers, think is ultimately going to be the most successful. And there's not really any competitor that's doing anything like that or alternative that's doing that.

Shane Rosenthal (08:44.07)
There's a couple of things I want to say though in regards to the hundred thousand dollar milestone. And I wrote it up in the Laravel News article and I think I said it best in that article. I just want to say to every single person who supported us, whether by purchasing Native PHP, sharing a post, sending feedback, or just saying this is cool, thank you. To the folks who believed in us when Native PHP was just a crazy idea, thank you. To the developers who filed bug reports,

Steven (09:05.953)
Mm-hmm.

Shane Rosenthal (09:12.26)
Ask tough questions, help us refine the vision, thank you. And to the team and extended community that has helped shape this product every step of the way, you're the reason we're here. This is not a solo achievement, this is the result of a community leaning in and building something bigger than any one of us could create alone. So it's not so much about the number, it's the validation, as Simon pointed out. This is a real way that the world can operate and the world wants to operate.

Steven (09:34.699)
Yeah.

Shane Rosenthal (09:41.872)
at least our world, and we're gonna keep pushing for it. So someone in our Discord said yesterday or this morning actually, they're like, there's no way we can step down from this. We've put this out there, it can only grow. And it's true, and that's what we're gonna continue to do.

Steven (09:45.963)
Yeah. Yeah.

Steven (10:01.357)
Okay, let's get into a little bit of a hot topic, which is the fact that you guys have chosen to go with a paid route out of the gate, right? I know you guys have already seen differing opinions of people that of course want the free open source stuff. Now let's not forget, of course, right off rip, there's native PHP desktop.

which is open free. So this is only for the mobile stuff. And I'd like to get into this a little bit because I obviously have a inside look. I know how much work from a number of people are going into this mobile development and what it means for everybody and y'all's livelihood and stuff like that. Right. There isn't as far as I'm aware, some

company that is able to bankroll this type of thing, they could just suddenly make it open source because now it doesn't need any sort of commercial viability, right? It's just like the company doing it. So yeah, why don't we take just a moment to sort of express like why you guys chose this path and just get it out there. I know you guys have already shared some stuff on social media in regards to this, but this is just a medium.

for this conversation and I think it'll help.

yeah, they just kind of hear it in this format. which of you two would like to? Simon said a lot on this. So do you want to kind of spearhead the conversation off rip, Simon?

Simon (11:42.406)
Yeah

Yeah. I think, well, you know, this, that decision kind of started before. I mean, I know you guys have been involved in this whole thing since before it became a thing because we've been talking about it for a long time. you know, I made the decision that it was going to be a paid for thing kind of very early on. And when I first really cracked the

Steven (12:01.975)
Mm-hmm.

Simon (12:15.042)
the nut of how to make this work. I was like, this is going to unlock something incredible. I think that's really valuable. I think other people will see value in it and it will be a no brainer for them to just say, well, I'll spend some, some money on this because I'm going to be able to make money on this. Like that is literally the thinking behind it. And for me, that's a, it's, it's a no brainer thing to do right now.

from in my career for this project for a whole bunch of reasons. You know, it's like free and open source sounds great. It is great. I believe in it a hundred percent and more. You know, I want to make things free and open for people and I want to be able to give of my time in that way. But the reality is that a project of this undertaking

just requires so much finances. You look at the organizations that are doing these kinds of things. They're huge and they're paying for tens, if not hundreds of engineers to work on this stuff. If not like constantly, at least at the beginning, you know, and

Steven (13:36.269)
Sure.

Simon (13:36.985)
It's, it's a massive capital outlay and we've done that on a shoestring really, you know, it's like people doing it as a side project, people working out of normal working hours. So they're doing like two jobs effectively or more, and they're putting in all of this effort. And then, and then, then then what you, you put it out there and, and that stops. No, you have to continue. You have to continue building.

Steven (13:42.398)
Mm-hmm.

Simon (14:03.324)
And you have to now also support people who want to use it. and then you're going to have other ideas. And if you, if you're like, well, in order to pay myself, other people to be able to do all of that work, I'm going to have to build yet another thing to offset that cost. You know, like your workload just goes like it goes through the roof and

And you've still really got nothing aside of the product and the community which are great, you You've got nothing to show for it And I think it's so so critical that if you want people have come to me saying like you'll never see this Grow because it's paid. You'll never it'll never be sustainable because it's paid things like How can I trust

that it's going to be around in six months time because it's paid. And I'm like, all of those things are the reasons why it's paid. So, yeah, it, it's kind of trying to challenge. don't see it even as a challenge. It is what it is. We're sticking with that decision for the time being, you know, like I think there'll be versions of it that are free eventually, yeah.

Steven (15:12.373)
Right.

Simon (15:31.172)
Right now, this is the thing we wanna work on, it's the thing we are working on, and we wanna keep supporting that, and to be able to do that, we gotta pay ourselves some money. So, that's it.

Steven (15:40.545)
Yeah. Yeah.

Shane Rosenthal (15:43.442)
Not much to add to that. I think he tapped on probably everything that I would have. I think that as any developer, look, Flux came out. I was gonna use that as an example, right? Tailwind already existed. Tailwind UI components already existed, already paid for it. Why do I need Flux? I didn't, number one, and I do use it. I think first and foremost,

Caleb's doing amazing things. He's doing all the hard work that we don't have to worry about and that deserves credit. Even if I don't use his product, I support the community and I support his efforts. And you can name a bunch of other products, community products that are paid for products. I support them. I delight in supporting them because they're my livelihood, honestly. Flux came out and it's a thing. I could get a client, excuse me, that

has a project that's all in flux and I'll need to know it. And so if I don't have my own license, if I don't have access to the docs, if I don't have, well, the docs are free, but if I don't have experience with it, then I'm losing out on this client. This is no different. And it's, I think that the majority of people that, I don't want to say complain, but are asking about a free version, which we do fully intend to have at some point. We see that, that's one of the first things that we've,

Steven (16:54.029)
Hmm.

Shane Rosenthal (17:10.45)
Simon and I in starting the company and which we can talk about, but they're not building things for their clients, which they should be charging money for. And so, okay, if you wanna just kind of build something on your own and release an app or something, well, what's the say you don't build an app that is making money also and isn't that worth 50 bucks or 100 bucks, right? To build an app that.

has in-app billing and you're making money on that. There's no way for us to know or to prove or for you to prove you're generating income from your thing, you know what I mean? Like that's, and that's not an area we even wanna get into. So we're just saying, look, for a single license, it's 50 bucks. After the early access pricing, it goes up to a hundred bucks. You can make one app, deploy it into, on the app stores or just have an APK on your website, people sideload and you're covered. There's a, you know, the license covers that. If you wanna do 10 licenses,

it's a different pricing. it's unlimited price, know, unlimited licenses, it's different pricing. So justifying it, think that fact that people are paying for it justifies it. Number one, I don't think we have to justify that. I think that the people paying for it are the justification that it's, they can see, all right, I have to pay a little bit of money and now I can build apps with a tool that I already know or agencies can employ the...

the people that already employed, that already know Laravel, really don't have to know anything else or learn anything new to build native apps, except for the library or the API that we were putting together for them. Yeah, I think that people see the sense in it. And...

as far as like personally, you know, capitalization and stuff like that. My dream has been personally since watching Jeffrey way build Laracast. I remember when even before this, but I remember, you know, one day refreshing Laracast and seeing it's like YouTube or it's like Netflix for your career. Right. And I remember seeing that in like 2015, even before that. And I was like, man, this guy is building this website, recording it.

Shane Rosenthal (19:26.542)
and selling us the recording of the website that he's built. And it's like, how cool would it be to make your living building a project, a product that people are learning from and they're growing from. And it's really like he wakes up and just does his own thing and it's enough to feed his family. Right. So I think that underlying has always been sort of a vision or a goal for me to get to, to have something where I can

wake up and I'm working for myself, I am my own boss, and I'm providing a tool for the community that's provided for me for all these years, something that they didn't have before, and they're all excited about it, and there's an audience there that we can discuss and talk with and strategize. So I think personally, there's always been this kind of desire to have something that's paying the bills and it's providing a necessary tool or a tool that

that people can use. And like I said, the sky's the limit. just in a technical aspect of things. Like I said, we built this for Laravel. We have PHP. It's an engine, right? We really can build this for, dare I say, WordPress or Symphony, right? Let's stay in the safer waters. Symphony or, you know.

Steven (20:48.461)
You can just stop there.

Shane Rosenthal (20:53.746)
But it doesn't stop on phones either. So there's the way I look at it, there's other markets, quote unquote markets, people, communities that don't know Laravel that use PHP that we can build for. And there's more than just phones. We can also, because now we are fully integrated into the iOS system and the Android system, we can build, we can build for watches, we can build for cars. There's really no, there's really not a limit there as what we can do. So.

And that's going more into like the technical aspect of how it works, but technically there's no, there's no limit.

Steven (21:30.221)
Cool. Well, good response, guys. I do think, obviously I don't know this for certain, but my bet would be that some of the individuals you have received a little bit of the, you know, why is this not open source backlash from, either one have never tried to run a large open source project.

Or two have never. Like. Had a project like this that needed. Funding commercial viability to kind of like really make it happen or even three they have no use for native P a PHP mobile like. In the way that it is intended for which is for commercial viable apps you know so. Yeah.

Anyways, I think it's a good choice the way you guys want. I your alternatives are either slow progress to a crawl because you have to be working on other stuff to feed the families. Or try to get funding, then mass adoption, right? So you're kind of like putting yourself in debt to get users and then somehow turn those users into dollars in the future, which is like Vercell approach.

Simon (22:39.9)
Hmm.

Exactly.

Steven (22:51.469)
I don't know, just lots of stuff like that. Yeah. Right. You get mass adoption and then it's like, OK, how do we use their data or shoehorn features so they have to use something of ours that they have to pay for and stuff like that. And that becomes very sticky very quickly. And I think the approach you guys are doing is just like very refreshing in today's world. I feel like it's probably something a lot more like

open source maintainers should probably think about moving forward, especially at the pricing that you guys have done early access at like. You know, 50 to 250 per year, right, this adds on monthly or something. With with updates for that year like. I know $50 is different around the world, but man like. It just. Takes like the tiniest amount of help from that.

Simon (23:45.671)
Hmm. If you can't make $50 back. Yeah, exactly. Like if you running an app for a year, if you can't make $50 back with that, then you know, that's probably not a viable project and you probably don't want to spend your time supporting it. Unless it's like a complete hobby project and you just want like, you know, stuff that you've built the

Steven (23:51.348)
Yeah. Yeah.

Steven (24:09.481)
But if it's just a hobby project at that level, take your time. Go learn one of the other options if like the dollars are that critical to you and your time is not. And then go figure out react native and use Laravel as your API and off you go right. What you guys are selling is time. You're you're selling time right the saving of time because you don't have to go figure out about go ahead.

Shane Rosenthal (24:28.198)
That being said,

Shane Rosenthal (24:39.27)
That being said, there is a point in an argument that's not really oppositional. We want this to be open source, right? Like I said, that's been kind of the thing that we want to get to, and we've said that to each other at least since the beginning. There is an argument that, well, how do I know, how do I try before I buy kind of thing? And I'm not going to, like, there's no announcement here, but we are working on

Simon (24:55.996)
Mm-hmm.

Shane Rosenthal (25:09.298)
Solutions for that so we are working on ways for people to be able to get this and and kind of see how it works and kind of play with it kick the dust off the tire so to speak and Before before they have to or before they're ready to purchase so they can at least But the thing is in all honesty, it's a Laravel if you can do Laravel

Steven (25:33.803)
I was about to say, what is there really to try? Like, you guys have proven the underlying technology is working. So if you know how to build a web app, there's not a whole lot to try, right?

Shane Rosenthal (25:46.482)
Well, to try, no, but, and this is a totally separate subject, but there are differences between building mobile apps and web apps. And we do get a lot of questions. We field a lot of questions and it is in the docs, but we're gonna update the docs a bit more for that. But just wrapping your head around, how do I seed an app with data? How do I access data? Why when I run,

you know, my seeder on my, inside of my, you know, IDE of choice, and then I deploy, is that data not in the device? And so there's, you do have to wrap your head around that it's not web, it's not web at all. There's a difference here in how some of these things fundamentally work. So there are some things that you need to play with and understand, and there's probably space eventually for some sort of schooling or course or something to that effect to just get the education.

Steven (26:36.525)
Sure.

Shane Rosenthal (26:44.998)
component over from bridging your own mind from web to mobile.

Steven (26:51.181)
Sure, sure. Yeah. Cool. Well, guys. That was the big thing I really wanted to talk about today, right? Too big, too big milestones. Android is now officially a thing. Obviously, iOS has has been and I would just say that with the, you know, financial milestone, you guys are like truly a viable. Solid.

Simon (26:54.844)
Hmm.

Shane Rosenthal (26:59.452)
you

Steven (27:21.239)
forward, which is awesome, right? That's really what you were hoping for. So. Super duper cool. Very excited for you guys.

Simon (27:28.764)
Thanks, Stephen.

Shane Rosenthal (27:28.818)
Thank you. Steven, and you've contributed quite a bit to this too. So don't give us all the freaking credit, Or the congratulations to us. You've been instrumental in a lot of things. Our time is really completely spent on so many things. I wake up and before I'm even out of bed, I'm looking at the Discord channel and looking at anybody having huge issues that I...

Steven (27:39.588)
in other ways.

Shane Rosenthal (27:56.656)
You know, like, because you never know, like, what are people doing that I didn't think of and, you know, stuff like that. Honestly, there hasn't been many or a lot. There hasn't been a lot. There hasn't been really even been that many. And they're really just people like doing things in a different order than what's documented anyway. And so just like, hey, go back to the docs and it's there. So there's a couple of little things, but I think we've already got those ironed out. But.

man, you came through Stripe, right? You switched us over. Are we even saying this? Yeah, I guess so. I mean, we were using any any stacks billing, which is cool. There's a there's a fee for that. But I think the biggest part for us was like, if we want to do any sort of promotion or any any discounts or something in the future, that's it just wasn't possible doing it through the any stack. So for those that don't know any stack is

Steven (28:31.851)
Yeah.

Simon (28:44.198)
Mm.

Shane Rosenthal (28:53.042)
Foreign to me. I never really played with it before this project, but it's a way that you can essentially charge people to for licenses You give them a license to access pulling in composer requiring packages In a nutshell, I think it does some more features than that. But there's just some things that they We can't do coupons, right? And so Stephen helped us bridge that gap and bringing us over to our own

Stripe versioning, still integrating with the API for any stack for the license issuing. But now we're able to do promotions and other, just more flexibility as far as what we can do there. So good job. Do you wanna say anything about that? Any specific challenges with that? Or is it pretty straightforward?

Steven (29:28.685)
Mm-hmm.

Simon (29:28.848)
Mm-hmm.

Steven (29:37.185)
Yeah, yeah. Cool.

Simon (29:38.224)
Yeah.

Steven (29:44.553)
It was pretty straightforward. I don't know.

Simon (29:46.861)
He makes it look so easy

Shane Rosenthal (29:48.24)
Yeah, him and that that nice hairdo.

Steven (29:50.156)
Well, mean, you guys were like, we really want to use PayPal that I would really like. But no, mean, it was like it was the first time I have ever. Personally had to write the code to handle. A flow where you're allowing a guest to do a payment process. We're using Stripe Checkout in this case, but just whatever.

Shane Rosenthal (29:58.546)
Who said vape?

Steven (30:19.885)
And then like not having a user account already in the system for them, right? So letting them check out as a guest and then after the fact, creating their user account, updating that, getting their subscription, stuff like that. So it's just a little interesting, like figuring that piece out. But honestly, cashier makes it very easy to hook into events that they fire. So that was no sweat. That was like the easiest part of it. And yeah, so.

Shane Rosenthal (30:46.93)
fun part.

Steven (30:49.579)
I don't know, it was pretty straightforward. And it'll be easy to continue to build on.

Simon (30:53.108)
I I feel like you, yeah, I feel like you kind of smashed that out in a day or less. I mean, maybe you refined it a little bit, but it was next to no time. Thanks to basically Laravel and all of the stuff that comes out of the box there, but, and your skill, obviously.

Steven (31:01.687)
Yeah, I think so.

There was a little refining. Yeah.

Steven (31:17.453)
Simon tried to make it a little extra difficult on me at first by not having access to a database. But we got that resolved. And so before we deployed, we were able to make it quite a bit easier. So that helped a lot. But yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was all good. All good.

Simon (31:20.027)
You

Shane Rosenthal (31:24.752)
this guy.

Simon (31:25.858)
huh

Simon (31:36.465)
Yeah.

It really unlocks like some really good things. I mean, I was going to say cool, but they're not cool compared to the stuff that we're going to do with Native PHP itself. But they're still cool. Shane was saying about discounts and all of that kind of thing. But there's a couple of other pieces that I think are really important for like how we, how we support people.

I get quite a few questions already coming through for people who have sort of bought one license and then they go, actually, you know, I think I kind of want the next level up or like the max level. And because of the way that any stacks kind of set up, it doesn't really support people doing that. So I've had to do those things manually. It's fine. Like we're not talking about thousands and thousands of those kinds of transactions. So manually is okay.

Steven (32:19.145)
Mm-hmm.

Simon (32:35.76)
But as that increases and more and more people are doing it, you know, I just kind of feel like self-serving is going to be really, really handy and we'll be able to do that. You know, we can't do it right now, but I think one of the things that I'd love for you to do next, Steven, like I'm just lining up work for you now is to sort out using Stripe's own like billing management thing so that people can upgrade and downgrade their

Steven (32:45.463)
Totally.

Steven (32:57.527)
Hmm

Steven (33:02.957)
All right.

Simon (33:04.482)
licenses or their subscriptions. and the other thing it's like, it, it wasn't, it's not subscriptions in any stack. So even though we've been selling it as like, you know, it's the annual renewal model is technically not a subscription. It's just a one-time payment. And that's sort of problematic from a business point of view. You want, you want the subscription to be set up, you know, so that the billing thing just happens when the time comes.

Shane Rosenthal (33:05.234)
Please, Steven.

Steven (33:07.853)
Let's do it.

Simon (33:33.853)
But the other thing around that is, you know, I have made a pretty strong point and I do tackle it almost on a daily basis for people at the moment. Like, oh, this is $250 a year or whatever, you know, I'm like, no, you can cancel anytime you like, you know, it's like a subscription. And you're not going to lose anything from canceling except the ability to get the latest updates. So this is the, you know,

Steven (33:50.892)
Right.

Simon (34:01.882)
This is some of the other stuff that you've got to work on Stephen as well. It's like, we've got to work with any stack to make sure that that gets handled when people do cancel and all of that kind of thing. yeah, like I think it's just going to be, it gives us so much, power that we can then hand off to users. And then that, that reduces like the overhead of us, you know, cause like we're the only people in this business.

So we've got to do all of these admin things as well as the support and the development and everything. Like I feel like I'm wearing millions of hats. So just being able to take a couple of those off is like really, really helpful. It's invisible, but it's like weighing it down.

Shane Rosenthal (34:45.202)
You're not even wearing a hat.

Steven (34:45.389)
Thank

Shane Rosenthal (34:51.452)
Very heavy.

Steven (34:53.281)
He's having a good hair day, so he went atlas.

Simon (34:53.392)
This is not... Am I? Is that what this is? This is a good hair day. You're having a good beard day.

Shane Rosenthal (34:57.788)
You know what? Screw you guys.

Shane Rosenthal (35:03.32)
Steven (35:04.3)
Man.

Shane Rosenthal (35:06.778)
Actually, it's a little twisty. Little twisty. I kind of like it though. It's kind of cool. Little character, you know? Anybody could have a straight beard.

Simon (35:08.86)
Yeah that's why it's good. it. Love a twisty beard. Yeah exactly. looks... It's beautiful.

Shane Rosenthal (35:17.468)
Future thinking. We got some events coming up in the next couple months, So Simon, aren't you talking in a couple places? You got a couple places lined up to speak?

Simon (35:21.979)
Mmm.

Simon (35:31.354)
Hmm I have got I think the next one is Laravel Live UK

So that's happening in London in June? I can't remember exactly. Is it the 10th and 11th? Yeah, wait.

Steven (35:46.733)
This is how busy he is, folks. He can't even remember when he's traveling internationally.

Shane Rosenthal (35:48.338)
Because I put his itinerary together for him so he doesn't know.

Simon (35:55.197)
I haven't read that. 10th and 11th of June. I don't know which day I'm speaking, but yeah, that's when that's happening. And it's, they've just announced a whole load of new speakers as well. And I'm really excited because there's Dan Harrin there. He's going to be, you know, filament guy.

Shane Rosenthal (35:56.996)
I think we've got time.

Simon (36:19.334)
Josh? Siri?

Steven (36:21.773)
nice.

Simon (36:23.738)
Laravel person. didn't know but like great Laravel person. There's obviously loads of Laravel people but I have I've never met Josh in person yet so I've spoken to him but this will be a chance to actually see him in the flesh and Ashley Hindle he's like I think he's becoming like this the AI guy or one of the AI guys in the space he's doing quite a few things with.

Steven (36:26.06)
Learn.

Steven (36:30.797)
Yeah, yeah.

Simon (36:53.794)
agents and MCP servers and things like that. So that's going to be cool. It'll be nice to meet him and he's a Brit as well. you know.

Gotta stick together. And then, did you know, do you know who Pascal Belgett is?

Shane Rosenthal (37:04.604)
Bean eaters.

Steven (37:07.501)
together.

Steven (37:13.164)
I know the name.

Simon (37:16.176)
He's been doing, well, he did something a while ago, which I think he kind of put a pause on. I can't remember what it was called, but then he built like this inertia tables library.

He's a smart dude and he's doing like cool things around Laravel and he... Go on. Yeah. Yeah. So got another, another Laravel person on there. So I'm like, I met him at Laracon EU for the first time and we've spoken before, but it's going to be good to catch up with him. And he's actually speaking at this one. So this is going to be really cool. So yeah, it's just like a...

Steven (37:32.447)
Okay. Okay.

Shane Rosenthal (37:36.964)
Is he the one that... Did he just get hired at Laravel? Yeah.

Steven (37:37.133)
Very nice.

Steven (37:42.049)
Yeah. Sweet.

Steven (37:58.414)
a

Simon (38:00.41)
a good bunch and I'm missing out loads of people but yeah.

Shane Rosenthal (38:03.152)
Joe Dixon.

Bobby, let's just say I'm looking at the site now just to say all the names. Dan Herron, Bobby Bowman, who I've not met yet. Lucas Giovanni, Peter Sum, Matthew Napoli, Joe Dixon, Josh Searer, Carly Richmond, some Simon guy, Ashley Endel, Chris Vermeulen, and Pascal Balgett, if I said their names right.

Simon (38:11.824)
Mm-hmm. He's a good dude. Who likes pizza? Yeah.

Steven (38:12.924)
I think, right?

Simon (38:31.664)
Yeah. Yeah, you've butchered it. That some Simon guy, I don't know who that is and you pronounced that all wrong. the name's right. Simon, whatever. And then it just says underneath for job description, some guy. Yeah.

Shane Rosenthal (38:35.868)
measure.

Hamster, Simone, Simone Ham-

Steven (38:40.551)
I'd love it like that was actually how your name was presented.

Shane Rosenthal (38:52.483)
you

Steven (38:52.903)
Yeah. Who dis bloke? And something after London? Are you allowed to talk about that already?

Simon (38:59.159)
Yeah.

Shane Rosenthal (39:01.638)
Simon (39:08.476)
I mean, there are things coming up after London, after June, like, hopefully we're all going to Laricon US. You're coming, Steven, right?

Shane Rosenthal (39:19.186)
Well.

Steven (39:21.013)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But there's, I guess it would be after what I'm thinking of is after Lercon us.

Simon (39:29.392)
There's another Laravel Live that I've been asked to speak at as well, but it hasn't been, it hasn't been announced. So I don't know, we might have to cut this out.

Steven (39:32.651)
There we go. Okay.

Steven (39:37.021)
Okay.

Shane Rosenthal (39:37.468)
And there's so many scheduled coming up, so no one can guess what that would be. Well, all 54 of our subscribers that actually listen to the podcast will be like, what is it?

Simon (39:40.465)
Yeah, I know exactly.

Steven (39:47.467)
Yeah, there we go.

Simon (39:49.454)
Hahaha

Shane Rosenthal (39:52.274)
There's, I think too, I think we may as well go ahead and say this unless someone's plan significantly changed. We are planning the week of Lericon, the week before Lericon, Simon's actually gonna fly to Charlotte, North Carolina, spend a couple days here. We're gonna make Steven come here for a couple, a day at least, and we're gonna do a bucket live. The live stream bucket.

Simon (40:08.186)
Yeah, baby.

Simon (40:16.668)
gonna eat some food. Oh, oh.

Steven (40:20.065)
Gonna eat some- ugh. You're gonna make me talk?

Simon (40:21.66)
Can we eat food out of a bucket whilst we speak on the bucket?

Shane Rosenthal (40:25.894)
We can eat food out of a bucket. think I think we should get Simon drunk for the live stream. What do you say, Introduce take him to like one of the Noda breweries or something and just hit record. That'd be. Yeah. Dude, they built a one they built one really close, actually. They built one like 10 minutes away from my house, 15 minutes away. Valentine. Yeah.

Simon (40:31.58)
dear.

Steven (40:39.061)
man.

Let's go to OMB and I'll just start getting him some pints and...

Simon (40:45.148)
It's gonna be an expensive day.

Steven (40:53.017)
yeah, that yeah, in like one of those Charlotte suburbs. Okay. Yeah.

Shane Rosenthal (40:58.2)
Yup, right down the street. The thing is, I'm joking. I don't ever drink, so if I had like a beer or something, I would be the drunk one. I'm sure. No, I'll just, I'll water mine down or something.

Steven (41:06.061)
I was about to say, I have a feeling Simon can outgun you.

Simon (41:15.846)
I'm not gonna say anything. I don't drink to excess, that's dangerous. I just like a little tipple every day.

Shane Rosenthal (41:17.02)
That'd be funny.

You haven't to a bucket livestream yet either, buddy.

Steven (41:25.229)
But he hasn't said what his bar of excess is. That's the ticket guys. We'll get you some pizza, get you some beer.

Simon (41:32.006)
Oops.

Shane Rosenthal (41:35.126)
I will say we are, I'm going to attend Laravel Live London and I'm very excited to go to that. This is going to be my first time over the pond and I not to go into it too much, but my, was going to take an extra day and go to Paris, which is like a two hour train, I guess away from London and a 45 minute train away from London.

Steven (41:46.689)
Yeah.

Simon (42:00.96)
like 45 minutes.

Shane Rosenthal (42:05.106)
And the thing was like, all right, so I can either go there and come back the same day, the day after everything, and then just fly home. It's like a 31 hour in Los Angeles. If I'm flying from Paris or it's like $2,000 for a nonstop from Paris to Charlotte. Um, so I'm like, we'll just fly from, I'll just go there, come back and fly from London, uh, back home. But it's got like, everything is like a 15 hour layover in Dublin. So I'm like, I'll just go to Dublin.

instead of Paris and spend the day in Ireland, they've got this like a bus tour. It's like thirty dollars, half a day, six hours of driving through the the castles and the cemeteries and all the, know, the countryside of Ireland and then a direct flight, an affordable direct flight, reasonable direct flight from from Dublin. So on the beer note, I'm to get a Guinness in Dublin from the source.

Simon (42:42.684)
you

Steven (42:58.359)
from the source.

Simon (42:59.708)
and he is gonna drink half of it and then he's gonna go to sleep on the bus.

Shane Rosenthal (43:03.704)
Yes, on the the plane on the ride home. There's probably a good is like right in the airport. I would be surprised if there wasn't.

Simon (43:08.217)
Yeah.

Steven (43:09.805)
I've heard Guinness from the source, it's like on a whole other level. It's really good. I don't really like Guinness, but...

Shane Rosenthal (43:15.216)
I do like Guinness.

Simon (43:15.388)
They pipe it into homes there now. You know, it's like you've got your electricity, you've got your water, you've got your drainage. And then there's the special black tap that's just for goodness. Every home, every home.

Shane Rosenthal (43:19.154)
Fiber optic in here Guinness.

Steven (43:20.865)
It's just piped in.

Shane Rosenthal (43:27.366)
That's awesome. That's awesome. That's amazing. We should move to Ireland. We should just get like we should buy a house in Ireland. We'll Airbnb it out and then just block it off when we want to go visit. it's free.

Steven (43:33.537)
be hilarious.

Simon (43:34.278)
Dublin especially, yeah.

Steven (43:40.951)
Perfect.

Simon (43:42.106)
and have a constant supply of Guinness in there that Shane won't drink.

Shane Rosenthal (43:44.337)
Yep.

Shane Rosenthal (43:47.61)
I'll drink. mean, I just don't much, but I mean, I like Guinness. I've got three Guinness in my fridge that's been there for like a year and a half. They're the one with the glass ball in it. You just like pour it and it always a perfect pour. I've got the right glass port and all that stuff. I do enjoy it. It is good. I'll have one.

Steven (44:01.869)
Yeah.

I will say, of events, Shane has already been a little bit busy and you just got home from a meetup.

Shane Rosenthal (44:13.36)
I did, yeah. I just got back last night actually, Minneapolis, St. Paul. Went and hung out with Ben Holman and crew, there was like 15 of us. Chris Morel also did a really interesting talk on migrating legacy PHP apps to Laravel and different strategies for.

all sorts of really cool, interesting things. Having dual login or carrying the cookie session over from one place to another and refactoring like, he did a really, really cool thing with custom relations. So you can override the has relations class and just implement the right functions. But you can kind of do anything you want to in that and have these really interesting dynamic relations, which is really cool. Actually, I might ask him for a...

Steven (44:46.662)
that sounds brutal.

Steven (45:06.518)
Hmm.

Shane Rosenthal (45:08.498)
some of the code on that, because I want to take a look. But, um, yeah, it was very cool. We got to hang out and then I had, I had bought an Uber back to the hotel and he was like, where's the hotel? I'm like, it's by the airport. He's like, Oh, just hop in. I'll give you a ride. So I got to hang out with Chris for, you know, a half hour. And then we just hung out in the parking lot and spoke about all sorts of cool stuff coming up. So he'll be in Denver also for Laricon. Um, so looking forward to seeing him again. And

Steven (45:12.525)
Nice.

Simon (45:25.852)
Chris is a dude.

Shane Rosenthal (45:36.986)
I think we talked a couple people into going to Lericon that are like, sell it to me. And I'm like, dude, you've got to go. It's not about the talks. It's about the community. It's about being part of the whole thing. Please go to Lericon. If you can at all figure out a way, anybody listening, go to Lericon. It's so cool. We're all going to be there. Come hang out with us. We might be wearing some interesting t-shirts as you'll see.

Simon (46:04.134)
Did you get in on the day zero zero day party?

Steven (46:04.557)
Shane Rosenthal (46:10.171)
I'm going.

Steven (46:10.369)
Which one? Golf or mostly technical? Or another? Yeah.

Shane Rosenthal (46:13.03)
Not the golf, mostly technical part. Yeah.

Simon (46:13.168)
Mostly technical, yeah, not the golf. Is there some special thing for the golf thing? I mean, I'm terrible at golf, but...

Shane Rosenthal (46:20.784)
I think it's, well from what I've heard, it's really just an Eric Barnes party.

Simon (46:25.244)
Like it's just going to be him on his own playing golf.

Shane Rosenthal (46:27.61)
It's just him golfing and everybody from the Laravel community gets watching.

Steven (46:29.005)
Everybody else is watching.

Shane Rosenthal (46:33.7)
And Aaron Francis chasing him on a golf cart.

Steven (46:37.099)
Yeah, that was a part of the community bundle if you did that so that like little bit of an extra ticket That is how normal folks I think get access to the day zero event that Laravel is hosting So the golf I want to say Sponsors will also have access but anyways, that's that have to figure out how to get to and from the the golf course but

Simon (46:53.02)
Mm-hmm.

Simon (46:57.372)
Yeah, probably.

Shane Rosenthal (47:05.874)
public car.

Steven (47:07.275)
I think it'll be I think it'll be fun. I think like as long as there's actually not many good people, it'll just be a hoot, you know, because like I used to play a little bit of golf, but I'm not good. But, you know, it can just be a lot of fun when there's like no pressure and it doesn't really matter like what happens. But if like you're one of four people that.

you know, suck and then there's a hundred people that are really good. It's like, but it sounds like it'll be the opposite. Eric, Eric is a he'll come probably with his own clubs.

Shane Rosenthal (47:42.096)
I should partner with him. I should team up with him because I've never golfed. I know I'm dressed kind of like a golfer today, but I've never golfed. I've many golf.

Simon (47:48.668)
Not ever. Like, you held a proper golf club?

Steven (47:51.624)
Really?

Shane Rosenthal (47:55.918)
My story for it's not a story. My both sides, my mom and my dad side, both have avid and like amateur golfers on both sides. And so I've inherited some really apparently really nice golf clubs. I've never even opened them to look at them. I have no idea. My great uncle passed 10 years ago maybe and he's like, I want you to have these. And so they're out there in the garage. I have no idea.

Steven (48:21.581)
You

Shane Rosenthal (48:22.566)
But like my uncle, my mom's side, great uncle, three of my great uncles, like, they're, they lived in like Hollywood. One of them was actually the one where I got the clubs from. He was the sales manager at Mercedes Benz in Hollywood in the fifties, sixties and seventies. So he like, he sold cars to like the Rat Pack and stuff like that. So he had nice, nice things. And yeah, but I've never.

I did, my brother and I, when I was probably 10 years old, went out with my grandpa's clubs in upstate New York and hit a few balls into the windows of the barn next to us and we got in trouble and had to buy the glass, clean up the glass, apologize to the cows, and that's about as far as it goes for me.

Simon (48:56.784)
You

Steven (49:07.735)
Sweet. Okay, so maybe before Larracon, I will come over to the Topgolf in like Concord or whatever. You'll meet me there and I'll show you a couple things.

Shane Rosenthal (49:19.59)
That'd be fun. I don't know.

Simon (49:20.314)
He's gonna be like, this is a golf ball?

Shane Rosenthal (49:23.27)
and a T. I mean, I know like you hit, just, you gotta follow through, right? You have to go all the way through the ball. I know that's important and you gotta hit the ball. That's probably the hardest part, I think, for me. We'll see how it goes. But I think it'd be really funny to have someone like Eric and then someone like, whether it's me or not, but have somebody like complete noob paired up and like, and him just yelling at me the whole time like, you idiot, you know?

Steven (49:23.594)
You

Steven (49:44.279)
Yeah. Yeah.

Simon (49:50.716)
It's not just a-

Steven (49:50.786)
Luckily, they're doing best ball scramble. So like of the foursome that's playing together, right? You're just constantly hitting from whoever had the best shot. So even if you like are constantly screwing up, it doesn't really matter because you're just using whoever had the best shot. So that takes like so much of the pressure off.

Shane Rosenthal (50:02.106)
interesting.

Shane Rosenthal (50:06.354)
That's cool.

Shane Rosenthal (50:10.96)
It'd be even better if I was a natural and I stomped Eric.

Steven (50:15.777)
Well, what's you know what is actually really fun because like I I have played these formats before and like around the green is where so many of the strokes like truly take place in golf. Right. And so that's actually where like people that have never played, you know, but like they've maybe done putt putt or something. I don't know. Just because you're really good at golf doesn't mean you're going to sink every putt. And so you can actually have a couple of folks that like really contribute.

Shane Rosenthal (50:17.348)
Not gonna happen.

Steven (50:44.097)
by just whacking in a putt or two and pretty cool. So it should be fun. But yeah, like off the tee and stuff like that, like if you've never ever played before and then you're playing with somebody that's decent, like you're just you might as well not hit pretty much. It's like not worth it. Unless you get hella lucky.

Simon (51:03.312)
I think that's, it's kind of fine. Like you just have a bit of a laugh, but for me, like if you, I dunno, is it a, is it a full 18 whole course that everybody's going around? No, it can't be.

Steven (51:07.799)
Yeah.

Shane Rosenthal (51:18.258)
How long does it take to play 18 holes with what, 100 people?

Steven (51:24.119)
Well, you would stagger off, you know, stagger your starts. And I mean, usually a full round with a four sum is like maybe four hours.

Simon (51:24.496)
think it might take too long. Yeah, yeah.

Shane Rosenthal (51:27.196)
Yeah.

Simon (51:32.848)
But yeah, then you'd have people coming right behind you. So you could have eight, basically 18 groups running through.

Shane Rosenthal (51:38.258)
It's gonna be hot, it's gonna be July. Eric will probably do two full rounds himself or something, but I don't know, I don't know. I don't know.

Steven (51:51.138)
Yeah, they can do about 144 people on the course at once. It's usually more or less, it's like two four sums per whole. Cause you can have a group teeing off when like the group in front of you is basically getting onto the green. Obviously you get backed up with par threes and stuff. so anyways, I mean, yeah, there's like roughly a hundred people or something, then they can kind of make that work.

Simon (52:03.896)
well.

Simon (52:17.18)
I mean, yeah, it's fine going around. But if you, I kind of want like, snacks and drinks. Just be like, just.

Steven (52:26.348)
Yeah, yeah.

Shane Rosenthal (52:27.46)
And I don't want sunburn at the show the next day, right?

Steven (52:30.615)
Dude.

Simon (52:31.376)
Yeah.

Steven (52:34.081)
Word, word. Well, Aaron has already said he's not playing. He's just driving a golf cart. So. Guess you could be a part of that, crew. But. Anyhow.

Simon (52:47.26)
It does- it sounds like it would be fun. I- yeah. I dunno.

Steven (52:53.293)
You gotta at least come if you feel like you can.

Simon (52:57.434)
I'm gonna, how do I get in on that? Is it on the, is there some thing for the...

Shane Rosenthal (53:01.222)
Part of the community ticket. You got one.

Steven (53:03.639)
Did you do the community bundle?

Simon (53:03.804)
Was there some, did I get some instructions via email or something?

Steven (53:07.701)
You should have, yeah. Sam from Laravel that's kind of helping project manage the whole conference sent out an email to folks that bought that ticket.

Simon (53:20.988)
Cool, okay. I'll dig that out. That's somewhere I hidden it in my emails.

Steven (53:24.907)
It was like, think at the end of April, because we got it the night that I was at the Greenville PHP meetup with Shane.

So that was like April 25th, maybe? Something like that. Anyways.

Shane Rosenthal (53:36.016)
weeks ago. Three weeks ago.

Shane Rosenthal (53:41.682)
Just do a search for Laricon, scroll past your rejection letter, and it's probably the next one. Which I got one last night.

Simon (53:43.708)
You

Steven (53:46.797)
you

Steven (53:50.484)
no!

Shane Rosenthal (53:51.778)
Neither of us are talking at Larricon Denver. That's okay though. That's fine. It's gonna be fun. We have actually some really cool plans for Denver. Really cool plans as far as native PHP. And it's too early to really say anything about it, but there's some plans. There's some plans in place. There is something, well, I mean, if Simon would read his Riverside messages, he would know about the one that I'm asking him about.

Steven (54:10.539)
you tease.

Simon (54:17.348)
I don't even have that tab open. It doesn't make any noise or anything. yeah! I completely forgot! Do it.

Shane Rosenthal (54:27.218)
Nope, now you have to. You'll present it much better anyway.

Simon (54:33.584)
Now I'm on the spot.

Steven (54:36.981)
No pressure.

Simon (54:37.126)
So, so we have, this is why asked you Stephen if you're going, if you're sorted, because we have one spare ticket to Laricon US. I don't know, we're gonna give it away. We're gonna give it away, aren't we Shane?

Steven (54:45.805)
I am sorry.

Shane Rosenthal (54:57.638)
Yeah, it's free for somebody. We haven't decided exactly how we're going to give it away. We should make it something really fun to do, right? I think that there's an inherent challenge, though. It's like number one. People are already like that. We're not giving. We're not buying flights and stuff like that at hotel. We're just giving away a ticket for Laricon, so you have to have that covered. And that means you've already like considered.

Simon (55:06.812)
What can we do?

Steven (55:17.495)
Right.

Shane Rosenthal (55:24.156)
doing this maybe and looked at and maybe financially it's just a little bit out of your reach or you've already planned to go, you bought a ticket and you'll have to get a refund from Laricon or something like that. So there's probably some sort of like...

We have to like qualify who like, and that will determine how we give it away. Cause it can't just be like, and when, right? Yeah, because we can't do it the week of or before or something like that. But we do have an extra ticket. We're gonna come up with something clever. Post comments on YouTube or tweet us or something if you have ideas or if you're interested and maybe we just raffle it off. Maybe we do, maybe in the live stream. That'll be too late. Yeah.

Simon (55:46.276)
And when.

Simon (56:07.1)
That's a bit too close. Yeah. I think, well, we've got, I feel like if we, if we keep banging this drum, we've got a, we've got a little while to get people interested in it. And if we can come up with something in the meantime and then, and

Shane Rosenthal (56:19.74)
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Shane Rosenthal (56:24.572)
That's assuming this isn't our last podcast before Lericon.

Simon (56:28.22)
No, we've got to get together now because we've got to give this ticket to somebody. So yeah, and we can come up with something in the meantime and then run it and get a winner out. Like I would say we probably need like three weeks before the actual conference which is at the end of July. So probably let's try and get a winner at the end of June.

Shane Rosenthal (56:52.21)
before July.

Simon (56:58.172)
That feels like doable.

Shane Rosenthal (56:58.374)
We'll have a winner by the end of June. I think maybe even sooner than that, to be honest, because people will have to get plane tickets if they're not already planning. I think that it should be on the backside of Laravel Live. I think that's probably the latest we should do it, which is mid-July. that'd be cool. That's a great idea. That gives us like three...

Steven (56:58.379)
Yeah.

Steven (57:02.827)
Maybe even before that.

Simon (57:07.612)
That's true.

Simon (57:16.854)
maybe I could announce it at Laravel

Steven (57:20.151)
Hey, there you go.

Shane Rosenthal (57:24.338)
We got four. We got a month from from now. That's plenty of time. That's plenty of time. So we'll think of something really.

Simon (57:24.806)
So we got four weeks to come up with an idea.

Steven (57:30.431)
and maybe include a little EAP license with it.

Simon (57:35.763)
look at that little sweetener.

Steven (57:35.905)
I just totally put you guys on the spot.

Simon (57:40.22)
You know, this isn't how we got to $100,000, Stephen. It's fine. We'll definitely give away a license. Yeah.

Steven (57:43.661)
Okay, all right, I will I will personally sponsor that license So whoever gets this ticket

Shane Rosenthal (57:53.82)
and they can get one of the clever shirts that were put in together too. I think that would be a nice, really cool pack. Let's contribute. That's a bundle. We could even do like first, second, third place. like a second place doesn't get the ticket, but they get the shirt and a license. And the third place just gets a shirt or just a license or their choice. This is a real thing now. Look at that. Wow. You heard it here first, people. Look at that.

Simon (57:58.097)
my goodness.

Steven (58:00.3)
What a bundle!

Simon (58:11.58)
That's turning into a real competition. my goodness.

yeah, let's do it. That sounds great. Like increase your chances of getting something semi decent. Wait, what, what is the ticket though? What's the Laricon ticket? Is it a community bundle one or is it a regular? Okay.

Shane Rosenthal (58:21.072)
I think so. That does sound great.

Shane Rosenthal (58:26.372)
I want in on this actually.

Shane Rosenthal (58:33.36)
It's a regular ticket. It's just a regular ticket. Yeah. Which is still a ticket to Lericon US. Yeah.

Simon (58:38.81)
No, exactly. It's great. I mean, just, just making sure it's a regular attendance ticket. Fine. Yeah.

Steven (58:42.903)
Yeah.

Shane Rosenthal (58:44.37)
Hmm

Steven (58:47.191)
That's great though. I was in the boat where I had to get a secondhand ticket last year to go. So.

Shane Rosenthal (58:52.272)
I remember that I remember that. You asked me if it looked legit when you got it. It's like, did I get this? It was from. Some some. Some Prince in Africa gave me this.

Simon (58:52.487)
yeah.

touch and go whether you're even gonna be there.

Steven (58:57.229)
I know.

Simon (58:59.164)
hahahaha

Steven (58:59.757)
I know. I was like, am I given this a random guy like hundreds of dollars? Yeah. But it was legit. So, hey, it worked out. Yeah. But I do I highly like got to get that done with plenty of time, enough for the person to make arrangements, but then also.

Simon (59:11.398)
See ya.

Shane Rosenthal (59:14.064)
It was, you got in.

Simon (59:16.848)
Yippity-do-da.

Simon (59:24.57)
Yeah, yeah, that's true.

Steven (59:26.849)
You want to drop this on the Laricon crew because then they have to change names and rosters or do the badge and stuff like that. So.

Shane Rosenthal (59:35.9)
So I think there's, mean, we can probably just kind of frame out like now, like it's not hard to say this. If you could be international, you're just gonna be responsible for the flight and the visa and like anything else that's gonna be required to get to the venue and to get to the place, but, and to stay. I don't think there's any sort of qualifications other than that.

Simon (59:51.1)
Mm-hmm.

Simon (59:57.212)
going to stay.

food.

Shane Rosenthal (01:00:03.268)
I mean, if we're gonna do like a license and stuff so that it's like, could, there's no requirement like you can purchase to play or anything like that, you know? We'll just say.

Maybe a newsletter sign up? Maybe we just pull from like all the newsletter signups?

Simon (01:00:21.66)
Could be. Yeah.

Shane Rosenthal (01:00:23.056)
I mean, we're going to need email addresses, a pool of email addresses or something to pull from anyway, right? So that's already a place.

Simon (01:00:31.164)
It needs to be like a specific opt-in to the competition though. Like it can't just be all of the email addresses that have already been in there because people won't know that that's a thing. You know, unfortunately not everyone listens to this show. we can, I can definitely 10th and 11th of June. So I think...

Shane Rosenthal (01:00:48.722)
Correct. Well.

Steven (01:00:49.837)
When is Laravel Live UK again? Mid-June?

Okay. I put a soft pick date like a week after that.

Simon (01:01:02.618)
Yeah, yeah, I think we could do that. And we would just need like a page, I think that just is like a simple landing page showing the things that you can get. then the sign up that I, Steven, he's all over it. Yeah, the sign up could go into the newsletter, but then like tag people with a specific tag, like so that we can filter them down and that's it. Beautiful.

Steven (01:01:04.013)
That's mid-June.

Shane Rosenthal (01:01:13.19)
We

Steven (01:01:14.349)
I got you. I got you.

Shane Rosenthal (01:01:17.148)
I know a guy. It's already done.

Shane Rosenthal (01:01:28.754)
Look how things just come together. Look at that. We can do an article on Laravel News. There's a big audience there, right? And that'll drive people to doing this, I think. Because if we just rely on this podcast, it's 75 people. Which is fine. mean, that's the... Your chances are better if we don't do Laravel. Right?

Steven (01:01:36.621)
Mm-hmm.

Simon (01:01:46.812)
Okay.

Simon (01:01:52.989)
Anyone who's actually listening is going and then wants this is like don't tell anyone else

Steven (01:01:58.476)
And, and I is going to do like 10x entries.

Shane Rosenthal (01:01:58.672)
Don't do that. Please. That's funny. I wish I had the time and maybe we could do something for next year if we really plan it out more. An app of some sort. And it's like we could even do you know I like it. You know I do like some sort of like Pokemon Go or you Geocaching of like you know picking up. I know I know.

Simon (01:02:15.28)
This is all you wanna do now.

Simon (01:02:23.228)
that would be so sweet.

Shane Rosenthal (01:02:27.534)
I know we could do.

Steven (01:02:27.821)
Alright guys, let me work with John at Thunk and we'll put together a game idea. I've already got his ear, might as well just, you know, spread this his way.

Simon (01:02:31.462)
Yeah! John loves a game.

Shane Rosenthal (01:02:33.266)
Sure.

Simon (01:02:39.184)
Wait, doesn't he need his ear?

Steven (01:02:45.493)
You Brits.

Shane Rosenthal (01:02:45.734)
So, well guys, we're right around an hour. I think we should cut it here. Lots of cool discussions, I think. It's more than just if you liked any part of this, to share it. If, well, I guess, if you want less people knowing about this ticket we're giving away, don't share it. That's counterintuitive, I think.

Steven (01:02:49.877)
Yeah. Good place to wrap.

Steven (01:03:11.149)
Or you can not be an asshole and you can just go ahead and share it

Shane Rosenthal (01:03:14.77)
Well, maybe the more people, the more you share it to, the more entries you get.

Steven (01:03:22.683)
pyramid scheme here we go

Simon (01:03:24.432)
No.

Steven (01:03:27.789)
Shane the sales guy here he comes a little affiliate marketing

Shane Rosenthal (01:03:30.448)
Always, always, always, dinar mi.

Simon (01:03:33.82)
There would have been a part of me that would have been like, yeah, but there's an extra layer of complexity there. And then now I'm just like, yeah, Stephen will build that. He'll build that in a day. He's got it figured out.

Shane Rosenthal (01:03:43.132)
We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out.

Steven (01:03:47.661)
Wonderful. All right. Let's wrap this up before Shane can say anything else.

Shane Rosenthal (01:03:57.382)
All right, no, for real, thank you all. Huge milestones. Obviously, we haven't done any shows in several weeks. We've even got two ready to go out. So I don't even know when this is at, does this take precedence? It must. Maybe we just put them all out at the same time and people can binge them whenever they want to. That's probably a good idea. But we've been busy, clearly, and we want to get back into the swing of things to some extent.

Steven (01:04:12.065)
I think this will take precedence.

Steven (01:04:17.687)
Hey.

Shane Rosenthal (01:04:25.466)
And we'll see how the future for the show goes. There is a future for the show and there's a future for the apps and all the things we're putting together. So thank you for being a part of it, being a part of us and our team. We read through and enjoy every comment and retweet and all that stuff. So thank you very much. yeah, we'll see you next week, maybe, hopefully.

Steven (01:04:49.613)
Fingers crossed. right. Cheers guys.

Simon (01:04:50.492)
Yeah.

Shane Rosenthal (01:04:52.658)
All right, peace out. Konnichiwa.